I'm a great believer in the study of music theory.
I've run into a lot of people on the internet who say they think the study of theory is pure rubbish. They play by ear. They want to do their own music their own way. And many more reasons.

What's your opinion on the life-long pursuit of Music Theory?

Hey Seepage, great question! It seems like most rockers are into a more primitive bag, and think that if they actually know how to play their instrument, they will lose something. It pains me when I listen to someone like Peter Buck of REM who has been playing for over twenty years professionally and hasn't grown at all as a musician in all that time. I mean, what else has he got to do? Throw food trays at stewardess's, I guess! You would think that becoming good on the axe would interest someone like that, wouldn't you? Then there are bands like the Wallflowers and Counting Crows who are nothing but studio concoctions and can't play live at all. They are an embarassment and a disgrace, in my opinion!

Then there are guys that can actually play, like the Allman Bro's, Grateful Dead, Frank Zappa, King Crimson, Eric Clapton, Eddie Van Halen, Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, Steve Morse, Randy Rhodes, etc. Those are the people I like to listen to. I don't understand the primtive bag at all.

When I played (which was some time ago) I was constantly learning and progressing and trying to better myself as a musician. If I was still paying professionally I would be studying Jazz harmony theory like a mad dog. I dabble a little these days, but don't really have the time to devote to serious study anymore. I wish more people thought like you, and would consider music a lifelong journey and continue educating themselves. It seems like in the past, some did. But very few do anymore. It's like the Ramones won, or something, you know what I mean?

Keep the faith!

I have been playing guitar for close to 25 years and originally started off with this teacher that taught me how to read music. As time went on, I realized that I had a good ear and was always able to figure out music faster by "listening to it". I strongly recommend learning theory because every venue you take to approach your instrument will ultimately make you a better player. The real problem is that there is not really any music written for rhythm parts to steely dan or Steve miller tunes, or any other for that matter. My point is that I think it is important to learn both ear and theory training. In closing, Flamenco style guitar in Spain is a style that is not written down. You have to learn it from another Flamenco player. I realize that this music has been transcribed, but lets face it...if most people waited until they could read music that well, it would take me another 20 years to be able to play it. Learning by ear is as much of an asset as knowing theory. Joe

i am a little of both. when it comes to learning a famous song, i tend to learn it by ear because i have never been able to find charts that are totally accurate. Other times, i will use the charts or notation to get me started and then learn from there.

I've had very little theory, but it helped me to learn what notes to go to and basic triads, but even that is just what sounds good. :rolleyes:
I have been playing bass for only 7 years. But when I took theory in high school, it really only frustrated me. We would create musical projects on a notation program called encore (like cakewalk) which I enjoyed and would get A's on every time. But the whole "book" stuff, I just couldn't get.
I couldn't learn keys and modes, and the whole idea of modes, just seems rediculous to me. There are 12 notes, they have all been played in every possible combination. Why does it matter what catagory it falls into? Big deal if your start on the 4th note in the scale of A and only actually use three of the notes!
Its just like giving genres to music, its not really nessecary, but some people need it. To me theory just seemed like some people wanted to catagorize every possible different way to play, so they did. I think they had WAY too much time on thier hands personaly.
But a true artist never stops progressing in one way or another. But its not always better to know more, it might take the fun out of it. then what do you have?

Jerm, I have to wholeheartedly disagree! Your take on theory is dead wrong. If you ever want to actually know what you are doing (which is the point, isn't it?) you need to know theory. And if you ever want to be able to add any harmonic interest to your playing, you need to understand which intervals to begin and end a line on. It depends on the chord sequence what scales you use, and the sound of those scales changes significantly when you play them against different chords. Try playing a diminished scale against a major chord, then try it against an altered dominant chord, and you will immediately know what I mean! Your last remark about knowing too much taking the fun out of music is about to make my head explode! YOU CAN NEVER KNOW TOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!! It will make it MORE fun, not less! Pull your head out of the sand and become a real musician, for crissakes!!!!!

First off.....did your head explode???

""If you ever want to actually know what you are doing (which is the point, isn't it?) you need to know theory.""

I know what I am doing. I know where my hands are, I know what they are doing, I know what it is supposed to sound like and what I want it to sound like.

So why do I NEED to know if its a major,minor,dim,aug,7th,9th,13th,ect chord or if I am in a mode or not?
Sure its usefull (I guess) to spout off the name of the key/mode your in or what kind of chord your doing. It just reminds me of meaningless trivia for some reason...
A mode is starting somewhere else in a scale besides the first note. (but you know that)It is all relitive, Its just a name for something, thats all.

""you need to understand which intervals to begin and end a line on""

in response:

""I've had very little theory, but it helped me to learn what notes to go to""

Intervals are VERY usefull, but if you have a good ear, it isn't needed.
I LOVED my theory class. But once we got into the second year, like secondal and 12 tonal scales, and made up scales. I was just like this stuff is gotten out of control. What is the point? It is all relitive, but yet it really isn't. Are still you with me??

Theory is catagorizing groups of notes. It is a neat thing, but so is cheeze whiz.

Theory did help me and I won't deny that. But I will say that I think it is over rated and people use it to belittle others.

:Reinserting head into sand:

i totally agree with jerm, theory is a great thing but a lot of people use it to just make themselves sound better than you. a friend of mine has had music theory crammed down his throat for 14 years and now all the music he makes he tries to make sound like dream theater or joe satriani and it doesnt sound even close, the idea of music is expression and i think the musician has every right to express it however he/she wants, whether that involves theory or not.

Jostrosky......duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!!!!!! This is ignorance on an unimaginable level! Every time you play theory is involved, although I'm pretty sure it's at a very low level when YOU play. Can you even play an instrument? Or do you think guitars, bass, keyboards and drums are for some sort of sporting event? Just because your buddy can't play, even though he is aquainted with theory, doesn't mean that there is any problem with THEORY, or do you just not get it? Music theory isn't some esoteric mumbo jumbo, it's the relationship between chords, their arpeggios, (Oop's, big word!), modes, and scales. You are absolutely right about one thing, "J" old boy, music is about expressing yourself. Just how do you intend to do that if you don't know anything about music, huh? Music is a language and if you can't speak, you can't express yourself, can you? The whole point is in learning the vocabulary so that you can express any idea you have. How can you write if you don't know how to spell? How can you communicate without being able to write, or speak? YOU CAN'T!!! The point of learning theory is so that any musical idea that comes to mind can be expressed, and expressed with style and flair and, most importantly, a sense of the personality of the person who is playing it. Being willfully ignorant just means that you are limited in what you can and cannot say! Knowledge is power, dude! Guys like you and Jerm really get under my skin........can you tell? And, yes Jerm, my head did explode. I had to put it back together with glue and duct tape! Let me put it this way, the sorriest thing in the world is a "musician" with a great idea, but utterly without the ability to express it. You can't build a house without tools, right? And the kind of tools you have, or don't have, will necessarily dictate what kind of a house you can build! Don't you wan't to be able to build a great house, or do you want to live in a tent? I would like to see both you and Jerm be able to write and play anything that comes into your mind, that's all. If that's the goal, as you say it is Jostrosky, then learn all you can about your instrument and how music works. We'll all be happier then!!


:p :rolleyes:

THANK YOU JOE MY MAN! You nailed it right on the head. It is proven that heart and soul make up GOOD music and theory may or may not even be involved!

And ONE SUN, I am in no way saying that theory and the knowledge it can provide is a waste of time and it can't make music more challenging or fulfilling. It can! But my point of using it to belittle people rang true 2 sentences into your post! Belittling other musicians for their knowledge (or lack ther of) of music theory. It is being used for nothing more than a boost to an ego. Most of what you wrote revolved around that! Resorting to mindless insults over this. COME ON! Cut downs toward someone because they haven't/don't/won't/can't use theory is completely uncalled for.

All I am saying is it isn't for everybody. Using some "arpeggio" (which isn't a big word you ass) to a theory pro is no more than a brain fart. But to the untrained, it could be the coolest thing they have EVER heard. So why ruin it with a title. So what if some one calls it the (song name here) chord instead of the official name.

I hear things. I play them. They come out like I hear. Sometimes better! Where is the theory? Buried deep within the music itself. If somebody wants to take the time to figure out what mode I am using on a chord progression I think sounds "interesting", go right ahead. Why not! But why waste your time with breaking it all down and sorting it. In the end you will have learned everything BUT the song!

Soul comes from within. Plain and simple. Theory can't give you Soul (sorry ONE SUN). Only the tools to break it down into little categories so you can figure it ALL out and have in your neat little piles. Some need piles. Some work better in a mess.

Music is communication. It is portraying a mood and conveying a message. Some do it well. Some not so well. Some with soul. And even those without. Some only play in one key while some can hardly even stay in 1 !!

Musicianship should not be based on the knowledge of music theory, but on the ability to listen and listen well. To hear what "should" be played and doing just that.

Jerm
Http://www.mp3.com/etherweare
Jermonbass@mail.com